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March 20, 2005

The Backlash Politics of Choice4Men

There are heated discussions on Alas, A Blog and Hugo Schwyzer's blog about Choice4Men. There is a second post on the subject at Alas here. I've been familiar with this group for nearly a decade. Choice4Men seeks to absolve fathers of the responsibilities towards their children.

Like so many men's rights groups, Choice4Men likens itself to the Civil Rights movement. This is insulting to the Civil Rights movement. These men view themselves as victims of a system that discriminates against men. In its FAQ, Choice4Men admits that it is about getting out of child support obligations.

Q.) Isn't "Choice for Men" simply a way for men to get out of paying child support?

A.) "Choice for Men" is more. "Choice for Men" gives males a right that women have had since 1973. It also allows men to become fathers by choice, instead of by accident. Stigmatizing "Choice for Men" as just a way to avoid child support is like saying the civil rights movement was just a way for blacks to ride in the front of the bus.

This is an excerpt from a position paper written by Choice4Men back in 1997. Note how Choice4Men has co-opted feminist language about "choice" in order to hide (poorly, in my opinion) these men's aim of avoiding their personal responsiblities. They want to have the ability to have sex without holding any of the responsibility for pregnancies that may result.

Men are entitled to a reproductive "choice", and should be allowed to terminate their parental rights and responsibilities during a limited period. It's beyond question that unplanned parenthood can completely disrupt a man's life. It disrupts his education, it disrupts his mental health, and it often disrupts his entire family life. We feel that, because of the impact to the man in this matter of such basic concern, inasmuch as there are any rights which are fundamental, that he should be allowed to make the choice as to whether he'll terminate his parental rights and responsibilities. The detriment that the government would impose upon the man by denying this choice altogether is apparent. Paternity, or additional offspring, may force upon the man a distressful life and future. Psychological harm and heartbreak may result. Mental and physical health may be taxed. There is also the distress, for all concerned, associated with the unwanted child. The continuing stigma of unwed fatherhood may be involved. The man is the victim. The government cannot deny the detrimental effect that the current paternity laws have on men. Certainly there are problems regarding even the use of contraception. Regardless of the circumstances of conception, whether he is extremely immature(1), whether it is because of contraceptive fraud(2), or whether it is a case of mistaken identity, he has no relief.

All Choice4Men supporters should read this link. Cara in the comments at the second Alas post had posted it. I knew about the article, but couldn't remember where I'd found it originally. Thanks to Cara for posting it over there.

Toward a Strict Liability Theory of Parentage

Here are excerpts:

"The story of Peter Wallis and Kellie Smith is just another in a long line of cases where the father of a child has claimed he is not liable for child support and/or that he is entitled to tort damages because of the mother's misrepresentations as to birth control and/or fertility. A woman's fraudulent misrepresentation regarding the use of birth control or the ability to become pregnant, however, has never shielded the father from child support liability."

[...]

"In these same cases discussed thus far, as well as in other cases, the father has claimed that the damages arising from the tort of fraud and misrepresentation offset the child support due. The courts have universally held that the father's allegations that the mother had deceived him were totally irrelevant to the issues of paternity and support. Child support statutes are based on the financial situation of the parents and the needs of the child, not on the personal agreements concerning contraception between the parties."

[...]

"In all of these cases except S.F. v. State ex rel. T.M., the fathers complained that the reproduction decision was solely in the mother's hands, because once conception took place he could not force her not to bear the child. But what the men have failed to understand is that in all of these cases the women assumed not only all the "reproduction rights," they assumed the reproduction risks of the failure of birth control.

Both men and women have reproductive rights and responsibilities. By virtue of biology, because a woman is the one to bear the child, it so happens that men must exercise their rights not to bear children earlier than women, that is, in the bedroom and not at the abortion clinic or in the courtroom. In the words of one court, [w]hile it is true that after conception a woman has more control than a man over the decision whether to bear a child, and may unilaterally refuse to obtain an abortion, those facts were known to the father at the time of conception. The choice available to a woman vests in her by the fact that she, and not the man, must carry the child and must undergo whatever traumas, physical and mental, may be attendant to either childbirth or abortion. Any differing treatment accorded men and women . . . is owed not to the operation of [state law] but to the operation of nature."

Try as they might, Choice4Men does not get off scot free. The law sees to that.

Now, just to play Devil's Advocate and throw everyone off, I need to point out that Welfare Reform has lead to all kinds of problems with unwed fathers and mothers and child support. Welfare Reform has created legal fiction stating that "child support is for the child." It's actually reimbursement to the mother for opportunity losses and other losses she undertakes when she accepts primary responsibility for raising children. The legal fiction has lead to Welfare Reform reducing fatherhood to DNA. When an unwed mother applies for public assistance, she must name the father even if she has not had any contact with him for many years. The state will track him down and require that he pay child support in order to pay back the state. Fatherhood is much more than DNA, and I think this practice causes many problems for men, women, and children.

A problem for many mothers is that when they petition for child support from a man who doesn't want to pay it and doesn't want any responsibility for his children, whether dad had married her or not, is that he often retaliates by filing for either sole or joint custody and visitation on his terms. I believe that if a mother is not getting child support and there is a chance that dad could retaliate in this fashion that she is better off without the child support. Any money she would have received in child support goes to pay legal fees. In my opinion, she's much better off without the hassle. Many of these contested custody and visitation cases begin because mom had filed for child support. If she needs public assistance, the state will not allow her to forgo child support, and then all sorts of horrible court hearings begin.

The same Choice4Men supporters who demand that they not have to pay child support also demand control over how mom lives her life if they do pay, such as visitation on their terms and forbidding her to relocate for a new job or remarriage. Choice4Men supporters are concerned only with their own welfare and demands, on their terms.

Posted on March 20, 2005 at 01:33 PM | Permalink

Comments

More than the legal dimension, I sometimes think these guys are more interested in winning the moral dimension. Sure, you can walk away from your kid and never contribute a dime. Done all the time. The difference, I think, is that they want this applauded a legitimate ethical choice. That they want community approval for their actions, instead of indifference at best, and outright contempt or legal penalties at worst. I think the argument could be made that your kid might be better off if you walk, especially if you're nothing but hostile to his/her very existence. What child needs that? But don't think I'm gonna think your some sort of hero because you did disappear.

It's kind of bullshit, because the whole "choice" scenario really underplays the whole moral decisionmaking process that moms have to make. Have the abortion? Very difficult for a lot of women, even those who believe as a matter of public policy that abortion must be legal. Adoption? Even more emotionally devastating, according to a lot of women. Have the child and raise it alone? Not easy either, especially if you are young, not able to support yourself yet, or having other problems such as no parental support. And the sacrifices - in terms of time, money, etc. - extend over a lifetime. Don't forget that social services are evaporating as we speak too. So the Choice4men people set up this strawman, this "easy" situation for women that does not exist by any means, in order to create an equivalent "ease" for themselves.

As for me, I'm looking for the day that male bc pills are finally available. Then we won't have to hear this anymore

Posted by: silverside at Mar 20, 2005 3:19:38 PM

It's actually reimbursement to the mother for opportunity losses and other losses she undertakes when she accepts primary responsibility for raising children.

Well, this is a rather interesting comment. Are you saying that if a father pays support he has the right to expect the mother to discharge the various parental duties in a manner that benefits the child? The mother is, in effect, a professional parent. It seems this way to me. Which means that if the mother is a failure as a parent then certainly no one would object to an end to support and a change of custody.
As far as "choice" for men, we already have it. Just say No.

Posted by: rooman at Mar 20, 2005 5:50:32 PM

Here is a blog concerning this topic you may find interesting.

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2005/03/turning_casual_1.html

Posted by: rooman at Mar 20, 2005 6:00:27 PM

"Men are entitled to a reproductive "choice", and should be allowed to terminate their parental rights and responsibilities during a limited period."

Why argue about it with them...

I say let them have choice and we can put an end to this nonsense men have been instigating for the last 10 or 15 years...the endless custody battles, court litigation over every god damn issue from pickup time from school to where kids spend their vacation, the abductions of children by men who have no interest in these kids whatsoever just trying to avoid paying child support...

I say give them the choice and have done with it...just make damn sure the laws are strict and they can't rethink their choice later and come back interfering in that child's life, like all those idiot prodigal fathers who turn up years later...

Let them have choice and I say good riddance.

Posted by: NYMOM at Mar 20, 2005 6:23:31 PM

"Are you saying that if a father pays support he has the right to expect the mother to discharge the various parental duties in a manner that benefits the child?"

No. That he pays child support doesn't mean he gets to tell the mother how to run her household. Don't forget that she is also paying more out-of-pocket for child-related expenses than she ever receives in child support.

Posted by: Trish Wilson at Mar 20, 2005 7:33:07 PM

Unless the mother has sole custody, he has the right to raise the child as he sees fit when the child is in his household.

Posted by: mythago at Mar 20, 2005 8:39:39 PM

>>All Choice4Men supporters should read this link. Cara in the comments at the second Alas post had posted it. I knew about the article, but couldn't remember where I'd found it originally. Thanks to Cara for posting it over there.<<<

You might found it @ http://www.supportguidelines.com/

Posted by: Beste at Mar 21, 2005 7:24:46 AM

I just want to say that males under the age of 18 should not be held responsible for pregnancies. Minors are not capable of making life changing decisions like whether they want to become a father.

Posted by: Bill C at Mar 22, 2005 8:10:17 AM

I'm not sure I disagree with you Bill C. In cases where the boy has no ongoing relationship to the mother, it's probably best that he just go on his business. Frankly a lot of teen mothers do not seem to know how to mother effectively, but teen boys seem to have even fewer skills. I have tremendous distrust of all these programs trying to force teen boys to act like dads when they are just not developmentally ready. For that matter, teen moms only seem to do well when they have a lot of support as well. Still, teen dads seem to represent the majority of shaken baby syndrome perpetrators, because they are just not equipped to deal with the stresses of a crying infant.

However, I do hope that parents of teens try to teach them a little better about personal responsibility for their actions. I am familiar with a family where the teenaged daughter had a baby at 15. Her parents legally adopted the child, partly to forestall problems with former boyfriend. (My feeling is why did you let a 14-year-old date a 17-year-old, but what do I know). I know someone who is associated with family courts, and she says it's a scandal, how many teen boys have visitation, but the only thing they know to do is to drag the kid around in a car seat in the back of the car while they are out cruising with their buddies. The alternative is handing the kid to HIS mom. Whatever for? Just leave the kid with the regular caregiver. Much less disruption to the baby to have a few caregivers as possible.

Posted by: silverside at Mar 22, 2005 8:59:29 AM

"I just want to say that males under the age of 18 should not be held responsible for pregnancies. Minors are not capable of making life changing decisions like whether they want to become a father."

But my state holds their parents responsible as do a number of other states...and then when the male or female become 18 or 21 depending upon state law, they assume the responsibility themself...

Posted by: NYMOM at Mar 22, 2005 12:49:23 PM

"Just leave the kid with the regular caregiver. Much less disruption to the baby to have a few caregivers as possible."

What if that mother is young too? Then what????

Posted by: NYMOM at Mar 22, 2005 12:51:33 PM

Ideally, teens shouldn't be parents at all. In terms of the 15-year-old I mentioned, the rest of her family seems to do more care than she does. She is a typically self-absorbed teenaged girl, and motherhood didn't change this. She's just not mature enough to parent consistently. That's why parents should take responsibility for educating their kids about sex and try to monitor their relationships, to make sure they aren't encountering undue pressures for which they are unprepared.

Mulitipying the parental immaturity factor by 2 doesn't seem to help though. That's one reason the girl's parents formally adopted the baby. Yes, they're technically doing without child support. But on the on the ohter hand, their grandson isn't being left in dirty diapers for hours at a time while "dad" cruises around with his buddies.

Fortunately, the U.S. teen pregnancy rate has actually gone down in recent years.

Posted by: silverside at Mar 22, 2005 1:16:50 PM

"Choice for men" has become a burning question these days. I
think we've much better things to discuss but this one.

Posted by: Mathew at Oct 12, 2005 7:20:45 AM

"Note how Choice4Men has co-opted feminist language about "choice" in order to hide (poorly, in my opinion) these men's aim of avoiding their personal responsiblities. They want to have the ability to have sex without holding any of the responsibility for pregnancies that may result."

Please explain to me how women who are pro-choice aren't doing the exact same thing??? Which is wanting to have sex without taking responsibility for what the what the act of sex is naturally intended to create. I don't want this to come across in an attacking manner, but the above quote seems to me to be completely hypocritical.

Posted by: Brian at Oct 19, 2005 12:46:33 AM

Abortion; feminist language about "choice" in order to hide (poorly, in my opinion) the aim of avoiding personal responsiblities. The ability to have sex without holding any of the responsibility for pregnancies that may result.

Less than .01 of women have an abortion for a medical reason.

Posted by: livingabortion at Oct 19, 2005 1:23:56 AM

"Mulitipying the parental immaturity factor by 2 doesn't seem to help though. That's one reason the girl's parents formally adopted the baby. Yes, they're technically doing without child support. But on the on the ohter hand, their grandson isn't being left in dirty diapers for hours at a time while "dad" cruises around with his buddies."

The only thing is that many Judges are NOT allowing grandparents to do this anymore. Particularly if it's the maternal grandparents...

Permission must now be formally given by the father, no matter his age, background or marital status, for any adoptions. It's no longer just the perogative of the mother and her family to make these decisions alone, as it was in the past.

I mean the adoption that was overturned last year in Florida, the father was in prison when it was arranged and he and the child's mother weren't even married. Now previously if a man wasn't married he had no parental rights and generally prisoners used to lose the right to contest such things, but not anymore.

Posted by: NYMOM at Oct 19, 2005 9:50:13 AM

"Please explain to me how women who are pro-choice aren't doing the exact same thing??? Which is wanting to have sex without taking responsibility for what the what the act of sex is naturally intended to create. I don't want this to come across in an attacking manner, but the above quote seems to me to be completely hypocritical."

Well it would have to be a 'limited' choice. Such as the paper abortion up to 90 days or so after the birth...it could NEVER be choice BEFORE as in forcing a woman to have the child...but the other way I could care less, as long as it was enforceable and permanent and you couldn't come back in a few years and change your minds throwing that woman and her child into turmoil after deciding you do want to be a dad after all...


Posted by: NYMOM at Oct 19, 2005 9:54:09 AM